seems like we don't see each other as often as we used to... special thanks to aaron, parisa, and david for capturing the lectures, and dr eisenberg and her capable crew at informatics.
i have three questions:
1. what are the benefits of paper-based quizzes (for both faculty and students)?
2. what are the benefits of computer-based quizzes (for both faculty and students)?
3. are you willing to forgo the benefits of computer-based in order to maintain paper-based?
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39 comments:
I'm sure you'll get other people talking about the pros and cons of the computer based testing. On my end, I'm completely against it and am more than willing to give up whatever few "benefits" we get from it in order to retain paper testing.
The one thing I would like brought up with Dr. Wolfe (or whomever) is WHY the department is willing to let us have the correct answers to review (and realistically, copy and paste into a work document and save) if we do online testing but why they are NOT willing to let us have this option with paper testing. Whats going on in their minds that somehow differentiates the two? Its certainly not an issue of "more work" on admins part since many of us do take advantage of reviewing the midterm and such anyway. And I know its a lot of work for Alex to let us all review the midterms to get the correct answer......so why do we have to be supervised to get the correct answer (and heavens forbid actually LEARN from our mistakes) on a paper test but we don't have to be supervised to learn from our online tests?
I would point out that Dr. Bucklan is extremely good at posting our grades promptly so the speed at which we get to see our grades if we do online tests really isnt much of a benefit.
I would also point out that in a class of 250, soon to be 350, its really ridiculous that Dr. Wolfe feels "class discussion of questions" would be a benefit of online quizzes. Should we be so lucky as to actually get a faculty member who is receptive to such discussion, there is no way that all of the classes questions will be addressed. The faculty will either get defensive and angry at the number of questions or we'll simply run out of time and have to continue the discussion via private appointments. This is something that some of us do anyway and more of us would be able to do in a more organized and professional matter if we got the correct answers (as blackboard provides for us) but on a paper quiz. I doubt the average faculty member is willing to have a bunch of stressed and worked up students discuss test questions immediately after a test (unless Dr. Wolfe is volunteering to personally do such reviews after each exam). I'll refer back to the ONE review session we had after the Biochem test last semester and how disastrous and unhelpful that was (for both the faculty and the students).
NYU simply doesnt have the manpower, electrical power, bandwidth, or really anything they need to support all of us doing this on a regular basis. Evident by the tuesday quizzes from last semester. Maybe Dr. Wolfe should go have a chat with Dr. Baker on the subject (and with the biochem department as well). Its funny bc my previous school did do blackboard quizzes and really had none of the problems that are evident at NYU. Am I willing to be the guinea pig class for this project mid semester when they SHOULD be working on these transitional projects in the summer or winter sessions? Not at all.
I think that the majority of our tests and quizzes to date have shown a general lack of care in their composition. Its a shame that our admin feels we shouldnt be able to keep our exams since it may undermine the "bank" of questions they have building up. However every quiz, exam, etc has been riddled with errors in grammar, wording, numbering, etc.....all issues of CARE. I feel its simply too easy for the admin to throw these tests together and they aren't putting enough effort into having third parties (TAs, other faculty, D4s, ANYONE really) proofread them. And it really angers me that their general response to these problems has been to "drop" quizzes or questions. Dropping questions is not at all beneficial to us. It actually penalizes us by making each individual question worth more points. If a question is so poorly written or a subject poorly taught to the extent that it justifies being dropped, we as students should not be penalized for it. Perhaps if the faculty had to worry more about the consequences of poorly written questions (such as if full credit was given for those questions instead of "dropping" them), they would take more care to have their exams proof read prior to administering them. Along the same lines, having online quizzes will make it even "easier" for the faculty to make these tests and I feel it would make the problem even worse. For all the work we put into studying for these exams, it wouldnt kill the faculty to actually write new questions based on the material that has been taught to us THIS YEAR (not from test banks from old years). It feels like such a matter of ego? That white coat ceremony must have been such a joke. This school sure does a good job of fostering a superiority complex to go along with that "Dr" title.
Dr. Wolfe seems to think that the student body is also permitted to "challenge" questions (based on what he said during lecture today). Clearly he's misinformed and somebody should advise him of that. Its also funny how this is the first time in two semesters that we've actually been CLEARLY informed of the method by which the faculty determines which questions they are going to drop.
Now if I go to review my test with Alex, I can see which questions were dropped. But I dont know why. And since I have more pressing things to learn from reviewing my test, I really cant be bothered with studying the dropped questions anyway. Is it too much to ask that we as a class are informed of which questions are dropped on a quiz/exam? We get dozens of emails from Bucklan anyway reminding us to bring instruments and get teeth (which I'm quite grateful for)....would it kill them to include on more email along the lines of "question 10 was dropped bc none of the provided answers were correct. the correct answer, for future reference, would have been the following".
I've been to see Alex to review my tests before (which is not that easy to do and not easily accessible to most of the class) and I was not permitted to write down even so much as the number of the question I wanted to challenge or speak to faculty about from an exam. But I was told I could "bring it up with the course director, just not write anything down"......so if I'm to be an honest person, that means I have to someone memorize the questions, answer, and justification for my challenge (without writing it down) for however long it takes to get an appointment with the course director to discuss it? Technically, I shouldnt even write all this down and email it to our curriculum representatives since I am expected to not actually document any of these test questions or share what I saw with other classmates. AND THEN lets remember that the course directors do not actually retain copies of the exams in their own possession. So if I do have such a wonderful memory and get to go talk to the professor about this, it'll be like discussing a "hypothetical question". I'm sure I'm not the only one whos spoken to faculty about a question and had them tell me "you must have misread or not memorized it correctly, the actual question probably wasn't worded like that". And you know what? Maybe I did misread it. Maybe I did fail to memorize it correctly. Maybe I didn't. Who knows. It's like the freaking federal government at this school. Just hide all the evidence under the proverbial rug and claim that the case is closed. This is a private institution! We're SUPPOSED to be more efficient and effective than our public counterparts.
Even Dr. Roy (who I feel tries very hard to allow us to learn from our mistakes) is only able to retain the quizzes for so long. So I repeat, how am I supposed to LEARN from my mistakes under the current method? And how would the proposed new method resolve that problem by unleashing a bunch of rabid students at the faculty en mass? I think Dr. Wolfe is more accustomed to dealing with smaller groups of students on the clinic floor where the interactive component is much more manageable.
On a final note, I think if one more faculty member tells me they want to do online testing as part of the "greening initiative" of this school, I might have to sign up for therapy with Dr. Hittelman. What kind of "green" school forcibly withdraws almost 300 dollars worth of printing pages (black and white only printing pages for a biologically based program mind you) from every students account? I'm sure the majority of the class wont use anywhere near that much paper in the library (and subsequently that money will disappear into the wind)....how about you take the money from our library pages and keep giving us paper tests? You could probably take that money and go buy expensive recycled African whole grain wheat paper from Hallmark to print our paper exams on and the school would still make money off of us.
From a student government standpoint, I would appreciate it if one of the officers would take a more active role in keeping the class informed. If a question is dropped, contested, etc....would it really be that difficult for you to send out a class email and let me know exactly what question was dropped, why, and whether or not it affected the value of each individual question or if it was a "freebie" etc? I get emails about subletting apartments and lost trypodonts and freaking smoking cessation twice a week.
Why can't I get an email that says something along the lines of "4 questions were dropped from the GDS midterm based on statistical analysis alone. Therefore the midterm is now out of 96 questions instead of 100 and each individual question is worth X point instead of Y. I (am/am not) permitted to tell you which questions were dropped (but you can go find out for yourself). I (am/am not) permitted to tell you WHY they were dropped (grammar, not taught in lecture, sheer statistical analysis). I (am/am not) pursuing challenges in an attempt to address X more questions and have them dropped from the exam as well".
So summary on why I dont think we should have online quizzes?
1. No logical reason why giving us the answer to online quizzes is somehow "safer" or "easier" or otherwise beneficial to the faculty as compared to giving us the answers to paper quizzes.
2. Quizzes and exams have shown carelessness in their preparation and editing before they reach the students hands. Making them computer based will only make it that much easier for the carelessness to get worse.
3. Its a logistical nightmare to be FAIR about reviewing questions for a class of our size immediately after the exam. Wouldnt it be a MUCH more pleasant experience for everyone involved if we were given the chance to go home, cool down, reread the question, look up our notes and DOCUMENT our complaints so that we can provide a well researched and CITED "challenge" to a question? As opposed to fighting for attention within our entire class so that we can challenge questions on the fly? It amounts to a mosh pit and makes us all look like unprofessional fools.
4. It'd be really sad for an ecologically conscious person such as myself to have to go into therapy over the ridiculous "greening initiative" of this school. Specially when I dont even see a single recycling bin in any of the lecture halls. Next thing you know, the water fountains and bathrooms will stop working in order to "conserve water"......o wait, they already do.
I'm going to stop here....bc if I dont stop now I could probably keep on going forever.
And MUCH thanks to the people Garrett listed who are capturing the lectures for us.
I am totally against online quiz examinations...for example, they still have technical issues with the system. Today when i took the online quiz, the system only posted half of the questions on my blackboard. I had to reload the whole thing again and retry again from the beginning. My point being the system is flawed and they have no way of offering good solutions to people who get screwed over by blackboard. Also in the professor's strict nature, it's not like the professors give you more time to work if blackboard crashes on you.
On an anatomy weekly quiz, I had that happen half way through and they gave me a paper test with still the same amount of time to take the test. I had to waste time to wait to get a paper test, then to refill out a scantron name and ID, and finally refill the answers I already solved which was a really stressful and rushed event.
What it really comes down to is that for all the money we spend on this education, they need more reliable electronic systems.
Lastly, they should always grade the scantrons and post them up within 24 hours.
And could someone do something about the lunch and learns? They need to provide more plates and larger cups.
And one more thing, I'm almost out of toothpaste, we need another vendor to come down with free toothpaste for the class.
Thanks for your time Garret!
I assume with enough modifications, the informatics department can eventually resolve all the technical problems of administering the quiz on black board(i.e bandwidth issues/log off problems)...so I wouldn't be too concerned with that.
But I'd still take issue with the the inability to write on the actual quiz. I find it beneficial to underline important words in the question stem. Cross out answer choices I've already eliminated. Write "T" or "F" next to True/False multipart questions. Draw occlusion diagrams if necessary.
I find that Clock ticking away in my face to be extremely distracting.
Dr. Wolf stated the benefit was to have the correct answer choices and questions displayed following the exam to help us learn from our mistakes. There's no reason why, following a pen and paper exam, we couldn't access the same thing on a password protected portion of blackboard.
I would personally prefer computer-based examinations, but only if we were allowed scratch paper (some of us need to write/draw things out to recall information). This method provides quick results, plus the ability to view the answers upon completion. I think that most of us would stray away from this style of testing because of past technical problems. Fix the problem, modify the interface and... 'I' for computer-based.
"And could someone do something about the lunch and learns? They need to provide more plates and larger cups.
And one more thing, I'm almost out of toothpaste, we need another vendor to come down with free toothpaste for the class."
Are you serious? No really, are you serious?
sahel had some great points.
I too disagree with computer based, all the points that were made out to benefits just seemed like gimmicks. devoting an hour or hour and half to going over the test/quiz is not actually going to draw a crowd. if people don't come to class what would be the point of going to these, when at most you get a few wrong.... for those of us that still come to classes, having to sit another hour longer in our already long days just isn't possible (I'm starting to get calouses on my ass).
There are FAR too many problems and hickups with the online tests, they can not guarantee that people will not get locked out, timed out, connection problems, formatting/display problems, or have a glitch with their own laptop.... From my previous experiences with written test, I have never had the words spontaneously fall off my page, order of questions rearranged, nor has the page ever flipped around backwards by it's own accord.
I really don't see any personal benefit from on line testing. While paper test only have a few benefits to speak of... the biggest is comfort level and our being accustomed to them. It is difficult enough to gain our composure during a test and then have to worry about doing it on a system that you don't have faith in. I find it unnecessairly more stressful having to do it online. The single biggest benefit we have with paper is comfort.... I have gone my ENTIRE educational career of 19+years on paper, the transition is not easy. The psychological aspect, whether or not faculty will give that credence, is huge in my opinion.
Andrew.
Absolutely unnecessary. Paper exams are fine, faculty just need to learn how to feed scantrons into the system without kicking and screaming about how inefficient it is to do the analysis again. Its not that hard. I remember Anatomy quiz grades last semester were posted up in an appropriate amount of time following exams.
As for the benefits of computer based exams, I don't see why the answers cannot be posted on blackboard, along with the quiz questions. With computer based exams, we all copy-paste the questions into a word document and review them later. That is equivalent to releasing the questions (which is apparently heresy for some profs.) Everyone did it last semester. There are no benefits to a computer based examination that cannot be offered with paper, with exception to the immediate feedback that an integrated electronic test system allows. I don't mind waiting a few hours for answers to be posted in a word document (biochemistry last semester)
Hey Garrett... I think that email for quiz answers that Dr. Kinnally has been sending out is kind of cool. Maybe that should be a way to let us know our preliminary grades (even without the quality analysis that apparently occurs if less 60% of the class gets it wrong)? Just an idea.
Again, disappointed in NYUCD.
My bad, it should read:
(even without the quality analysis that apparently occurs if ***more than 60% of the class gets it wrong)?
I find it incredibly frustrating that the faculty keep trying to make our quizzes and exams hi-tech! We’ve been taking pen and paper tests and exams for years now…like Andrew said, my entire educational career was spent taking exams on paper. It is incredibly hard to think through an exam when staring at a computer screen with a timer counting down how much time you have left. It is even harder to not be able to underline important parts of the question and then cross out wrong choices among the answer options. On the computer I can’t even put down a T/F for questions that I’m trying to reason out. In addition to this, I for one, need to write out or draw out what I’m thinking, I can’t do that on a computer screen! It’s making me very panicky to think of a return to blackboard quizzes!
The other thing I’m concerned about is the fact that any laptop screen is vertically oriented, I mean it’s right there in your face. The university is already so paranoid about cheating, the next thing you know, we’re going to have to wear blinders or something to prevent us from looking up from our own laptops while thinking (and yes, I look up at the ceiling when I’m thinking through a question) and just happening to see a computer screen that’s right in our faces.
I hope the administration understands that giving a computer-based exam is equivalent to releasing the exam (and all correct answers) considering a quick copy/paste, printscreen, or etc would be incredibly easy to do. It seems to contradict their current stance on making us return the quiz sheets, with relatively strict quiz viewing rules. If they want to go through the trouble of writing totally new quizzes for future classes, more power to them. But, considering how lazy some of them are, I would think they would want to build a bank of unreleased questions.
I, for one, like the computer based exams. While paper-based exams do allow you the convenience of writing on the exam, I feel that having scratch paper available would be sufficient. The computer based exams offer immediate feedback and I like not having to wait for my scores. While Dr. Baker was able to have quick turn around on anatomy quiz scores, I simply cannot believe that every professor will manage to do that. Thus, the only way to truly achieve immediacy is through computer based exams. If we can get them to work consistently, I think computer exams are the way to go.
People are letting their anger over the computer quizzes inhibit their intelligent and logical thought. This city does not make enough provisions for recycling but we shouldn't take that out on the school. The whole idea isn't just to recycle. It is also to reduce and reuse. You know that pretty little circle thing with the arrows? Yeah... those other 2 arrows actually mean something. Don't berate the school for trying to reduce paper usage, that's just stupid. Since recycling here is so bad, reducing is necessary. If the idea of conservation makes you feel psychologically unstable, you've got bigger issues to deal with than a computer based quiz.
Further, why is everyone referring to our class as the class of guinea pigs? It's not like every other class hasn't gone through changes as well? The fact of the matter is that the school is always trying to improve their education. Every class will have changes so calling ourselves the class of guinea pigs is as much of a distinction as calling ourselves the class of dental students.
1. what are the benefits of paper-based quizzes (for both faculty and students)?
* ability to easily mark/highlight/take notes on questions
* go back and forth between questions as many times as I want with ease
* organized and familiar test environment
2. what are the benefits of computer-based quizzes (for both faculty and students)?
* instant gratification of grade performance
3. are you willing to forgo the benefits of computer-based in order to maintain paper-based?
* NO. The faculty have no idea how to administer computer exams, and the environment is way too out of control. When things go wrong, which they always do it becomes mayhem. We are under enough stress with the cumulative quizzes/exams as it is. There is no need to add anymore to the load. They want computer testing because it benefits them, not us, which seems be a familiar theme for me. If we believe we will test better using paper, which is the method we have been accustomed to throughout most of our schooling, then that is what we should be able to do.
Sahel's lengthy, yet extremely dead-on editorial captured everything I feel about this school. LAZY. The school is too LAZY to do anything. Students try to work with the administration to improve student life and opposition prevails.
NO TO ONLINE EXAMS.
benefits of computer based - the only benefit is immediate grading. everything else about computer based exams are not benefits, in fact they are distractions, obstacles, etc. the faculty are trying to force feed us this so they can a) remove the grading process from some admin staff; b) keep a database of questions safe and secure from the students - but who are they actually kidding, this will make it EASIER to copy the Q&As down. They are only fooling themselves.
benefits of paper - comfort for one, you don't need to sit with a laptop on your legs and arms cramped up in your gut, maybe the ergonomics guy can take some pictures of students with "gator-arms" while taking a test with a laptop on their legs. Ability to jot down notes, or use the process of elimination effectively by scratching out wrong answers. This is a function that is totally lost using a computer based exam. Ability to draw out sketches to figure out answers - for occlusion questions or anatomy (circle of willis) it's priceless to be able to draw it out.
I'm sure there are more, but thats what I came up with quickly.
NO, i woudn't give up the benefits of paper and pencil for a computer based exam. There just is nothing good that would come out of it.
And don't they realize that we are losing out on only the single most powerful tool in teaching/learning....LEARNING from your MISTAKES. W/o getting the exam to go over your answers, you fundamentally lose out on such a powerful teaching tool. The school needs to be able to force teachers to write new questions for every exam. Scheduling dozens of studnets to see the exam at the same time is ridiculous. How do they not see how much of a pain in the ass that is for both sides?
1. I think the benefits of paper based quizzes are that it is easier to write on and explain to yourself the right answer (like david said)
2. The computer based quizzes have a lot of good anticheating technology and it is nice to get instant feedback but doesn't seem practical for a lot of reasons
3. Personally I would rather have a paper based quiz/exam because I would be less stressed and even with scratch paper i would have trouble managing my computer and paper on the chair. I personally think the technology might be best used to learn biomaterials or be pop quized in GDS. It seems that nobody pays attention during the biomaterial lectures and just talks the whole time and is actually really rude about it. If we had a quiz like the other day on the material but was just covering biomaterials or even questions like we had today, it could be good practice if it had randomized questions from a large pool with a time limit. This might be a good idea for getting a more respectful behavior out of the class. However, I think the grade received would have to be very minimal because biomaterials isnt really that hard and doesnt need a lot of notes taken down. The hard questions could be used for an exam. Maybe even make the quiz just count for attendance like today's so that nobody feels pressured to get
100% correct. The faculty and us could simply use it as a feedback tool like when bucklan calls on us in lab to see how much we know. If someone had technical difficulties they could simply tell Bucklan that they need an attendance scantron and just wouldnt be able to participate that day. I think this is actually a simple solution to getting some classes to be more interactive or interesting and maybe even a little fun haha!.I can see people having a lot of problems with the online method for quizzes but the faculty and students might be open to the suggestion I came up with as long as it remains attendance credit only.
i def agree with the clock ticking in my face!!! it was like a damn time-bomb or something!
i agree that all the benefits of a computer-based exam are possible in paper-format:
1. post grades within 24 hrs (we know theyre graded, just post them already!! hire nyu students! with this economy, i'm sure they could find someone!)
2.and let us keep our quizzes! i dont know why they would let us see answers on computer and not on paper. it seems odd.
Also online EXAMS? as in my computer sitting on my lap and operating on BATTERY for more than 1hr? no, no, and no. the last thing i want to worry about during an exam is my computer dying or losing internet connection. (plus kids could totally cheat by turning their connection on and off and then blaming the wireless connection or something)
i 100% agree with sahels comment about the dropped questions! i feel so in the dark about what's going on in regards to challenges and questions, and everything in general! we've asked to be more informed previously but nothing has happened... garrett: i want to appreciate everything that you've done, but i dont even know what you've done!
why can't we see our exams after 3 weeks in gds? what about seeing the questions/answers but not my exact scantron if theyre concerned about space for all the papers? can student council fix this?
i value the $300 printing stipend and have been told that its not actual money taken from our accounts. its just a number so that people don't go crazy with the printing. the reason its so high is so that students can print all the lectures but not be wasteful and print out, for example, every single textbook we have on vitalbook. i do wish printing hours would be open before class starts though.
btw where are speilmans lectures? he promised that they'd be up before class.
in terms of tuesday quizzes, i feel that they have enough problems as it is. for one thing, half the students in saklad have already completed their quizzes by the time the back row has received them. i know that technically we're not supposed to start the quiz till the proctors say so but:
has any student been thrown out of the quiz for starting early? no
have i personally seen students start and finish the exam before the actual start time? yes.
work on that problem instead!
for the nyucd2012 forum, how about a similar format to this site where the newest posts are at the top of the page (rather than having to think about whether i'm interesting in announcements or cirriculum issues...)
1. paper testing
students-
Tactile feedback. We are dentists after all. I'm sure a lot of us like to have something to hold/draw/see when learning or testing. I agree with above posts.
- We just like them and I know I do better on paper tests than online tests.
staff-
Easier to monitor what people are doing. During past anatomy quizzes, I have seen students complete whole quizzes before their "friend" starts so that one person sees all or most of the questions first.
2. computer based testing
students-
Instant feedback.
staff-
No one needs to grade the papers.
Questions can be finished later because they don't need to be printed.
They don't need to make multiple versions.
3. NO. I like the paper, I do better on paper and I think that I should be allowed to perform to the best of my ability. It's hard enough to do so as is. The possibility of something going wrong with the computer based testing as evidenced by our experiences in the past year is high. We don't want to cloud our testing environment with elements that don't even have to do with the material itself. These comprehensive tests are enough stress.
D
"has any student been thrown out of the quiz for starting early? no
have i personally seen students start and finish the exam before the actual start time? yes. "
"During past anatomy quizzes, I have seen students complete whole quizzes before their "friend" starts so that one person sees all or most of the questions first."
You guys need to report this or stop using it as an argument. The fact of the matter is that people are going to find a way to cheat no matter how they administer tests. It is up to us to say that we will not stand for it and stop letting people get away with it. If someone cheats, THEY are the problem, not the testing method.
Dr. Roy and Dr. Wishe can't monitor if someone in the front started the quiz if they are passing papers out in the back. You either need to report it or stop whining. If you don't want to put up or shut up, there is always the other easy solution... computer based testing so nobody gets to start before anyone else.
In Summary:
1. If you see something say something.
2. Put up or shut up.
3. Yay for computer based testing.
Response to comment above: I was actually talking about the computer based testing for some people starting before others. Yes, you're right I have seen it on the weekly paper quizzes but I think it is innocent (for the most part) and at least you aren't showing all your answers to the people behind you as you would with a computer screen.
D
That's interesting D. I would have thought the password to start the exam would have prevented that. If they ever actually get the system working correctly, maybe they can allow a much smaller window to start the exam to prevent that problem.
The one advantage computer based exams do have is that they can shuffle the questions and each individual answer choice so anyone who was trying to look onto another student's computer would have to be staring pretty hard. It should be easy to catch these people if the proctors are aware and are keeping an eye out for it.
Salhel,
If you run for class rep next year, you'll have my vote. Your reasoning and logic are solid. And you have some good points and suggestions as well. I agree with what you said.
K
Sahel has my vote too.
think the only advantage the compute Qs have over paper is the fact they let us see our own exams and what we got wrong.
They have deprived us of this very important part of our education which is learning from our mistakes this semester.
If they don't mins that we see our exams and our own answers if we took the test on computer, I would argue why they seem to mind if they allow us the same thing when we take the tests on paper!?
I am for paper tests BUT if we could get our exams back and/or have a keyed exam posted right after the test, just like they used to in Anatomy, it'd be grand.
Thank you.
Al
Dave Maricondo - I do not like computer based exams
The computer based exams allow for no interaction with the exam. If I read a question, there is no way I can cross out wrong answers or write notes down as to why an answer is right. During the first part of the year, I found myself re-reading questions and answer choices to reassure myself that I was choosing the right answer.
That brings me to my next point, on the "new" blackboard quiz we took in GDS, there was not a feature to even review previous answered questions after completing the exam. One of the best things to do after you finish is to take a breath and review what you selected. As in all exams, there is a level of pressure that facilitates mistakes.
I also do not think that computer based exams will further eliminate cheating during exams. What should stop someone from having the powerpoint minimized at the bottom of their screen and pulling it quickly when a proctor is not around. Another instance would be placing cheat notes on the notepad feature on their computer. What about sending messages back and forth on gmail chat. Simply typing "1 = D" to a friend sounds a lot like clicking an answer choice. I believe that computers give the ability for students to cheat more.
The "going green" argument for computer based exams from the administration is a complete BS. I feel it is an argument they want us to be sympathetic to. I feel the administration should find ways to "go green" without inhibiting our academic experience.
As it happened last year, online exams have no safty net. It seemed when NYUCD blackboard wanted to shut down, it shut down on our quiz days. So what happens next? Well, last semester it was a circus with people yelling "on I got on" or "o blackboard just kicked me off". Then what happens is you have people disrupting other people while they are taking the exam.
What happens if blackboard is completely down. We take a 3 hour exams with a professor scrolling down a word document. Yeah, that was great last semester...
Overall
No interaction with the exam
No Review
More Cheating would occur
No safety net = MADNESS
Thank you,
Dave
I'm in HUGE agreement with:
1. Sahel's comments regarding faculty's complete failure to utilize the exam process as a tool to actually help us learn (imagine that!) Specifically I'm referring to...
--faculty "dropping" questions rather than taking ownership of their mistakes (b/c we all know nobody's perfect)
--not keeping us informed about what exact changes take place following the "answer analysis" of our quizzes and tests
--not letting us keep, write notes about or challenge wrong and/or obviously-diluted and poorly designed questions (thus preventing us from actually learning from our mistakes)
2. Dave's comments about cheating...
--as much as I'd like to believe NYUCD used their best judgment in accepting our current Class of 2012, more often than not I witness, overhear or read words and comments that suggest the presence of a few cut-throaters who would lie, cheat and steal at the expense of anyone and everyone to get ahead....not that this is "groundbreaking news" for ANY setting comprised of such a large and diverse number of individuals, but I genuinely expected better in dental school (call me an idiot). Regardless, cheating happens. After reading Dave's comment alone, our faculty should possess ZERO desire to cling onto the idea of Blackboard quizzes.
3. And a few more additions....
--honestly, if the tables were turned and *I* was the one attempted to administer Blackboard exams in the same manner as what we've so far experienced, I'd feel like a complete moron: my curriculum and teaching skills would become completely undermined by the absurd circus that accompanies what is supposed to be a serious test-taking event. Likewise, the fact that faculty members are choosing this option for themselves is astounding to me.
--faculty need to realize that the act of dropping questions and making all sorts of post-test alterations has gone WAY too far when your end results fail to separate the B+, A and A+ students: I'll never let go of the fact that I studied my ass off for the Basic Tissues-Neuro midterm and made the nearly same grade as another student who didn't even wink at several BT lectures that were extensively asked about. Now, with my new lesson in mind (you know....that our school could give a rat's ass about being fair), when quizzes and exams approach, I
--go to the movies
--spend about 2 hours at the gym
--get a full 8 hours of sleep
--study here and there (on the train, between classes, etc)
Lo and behold, my lack of motivation rewards me well: since most "hard" topics I would have studied for previously get dropped anyway, my grades end up being what they've always been (and probably what they will continue to be for the rest of this semester)
So...yay for me, and shame on this school. To hell with specializing and graduating with a high GPA. In the end, all that really matters is being confident that you are learning what you you need to know to become a great dentist. That said, I'm putting the rest of my efforts strictly into clinic and labs hereafter. I encourage ALL of you to join me in my efforts to stop giving two craps!
Best,
Anna (yes, Anna Duong, the one who gives you nasty, glaring looks b/c I'd rather be getting my fingernails yanked off than standing next to you in the elevator)
i hate anna, yes the "Anna Duong, the one who gives [us] nasty, glaring looks b/c [she'd] rather be getting [her] fingernails yanked off than standing next to [us] in the elevator." why are you such a hater. i'd rather get my fingernails yanked off then read anything you have to say.
how was the 12min meeting for those of us who couldn't make it?
tsk tsk tsk....learn the definition of sarcasm, my dear Mr./Ms. "Anonymous". If I'M the hater, then why don't you scroll up and/or browse through previous postings to see how many people in our class are so quick to bite each other's heads off (or "hate" as you so cleverly put it) when given the chance to do it under complete anonymity. Not only are you a fool for failing to understand the joke, but you've also presented yourself as a pathetic hypocrite. You know exactly who I am, so why waste your time as well as Garret's blog space making completely irrelevant comments?
Smooches, jerk.
Anna
In fairness to that person, sarcasm doesn't work over the internet. I always feel like Anna is giving me dirty looks but her closing for that post shows she has personality. I wouldn't mind having a beer with her... if she promised not to give me a dirty look.
12 Minute Meeting: Informative and helpful. Garrett updated us on the clicker situation, addressed us on some ethical issues and took ideas on what should be discussed with the deans during their meeting. The guys got charisma. Also, his wife bought him an iphone.
so whats the update about the clicker situation, are they going to refund our money back? thanks
No, they're not. Garrett said he found a bookstore that may buy our old clickers back for $12 to 15 if NYU undergrad is going to use those clickers next year, but we have to wait until the fall to find out. The other option is to return it to IT for $5, which will be given to student council, but Garrett is trying to bring that money closer to home.
At the 12 minute meeting, I've finally come to the conclusion that our class consists of whiners. I don't get it. All our lives, we've been in school following strict guidelines and doing whatever it is that professors expect of us. So why are we suddenly complaining now?
IT'S SUPPOSE TO BE CHALLENGING. Let the faculty do what they want, and adapt to it.
Hooray to being a part of a pathetic group of future dentists.
To the last person that commented, congrats on trying to sound all high and mighty but I just don't buy that you don't have an inkling of protest in your soul for the issues mentioned above. Are you even READING what's being said above? These points are things that shouldn't be ignored....what Sahel, Anna, and many other people have said is dead-on in describing issues that are relevant AND clearly explained. Sorry, but I am NOT okay with professors blatantly making policies that seem to intentionally act as a barrier to our learning experience. I never complied to or "followed" that in my undergraduate years because I didn't have to EXPERIENCE it...otherwise, you bet we would've raised our voices! This is even MORE of a concern to me now, seeing how I'm paying 5X more tuition. All your comment has done for us is show that there are some people in our class who don't mind being ignorant or just another part of the voiceless mob. I'm guessing you don't participate in much of anything outside of whatever immediately benefits you, eh?
why are you reading this blog if you think we're whining? at least you admit that you're pathetic.
we are helping nyucd be a better institution. YOU will soon be following the guidelines that WE are suggesting.
Dang. This blog is getting heated!
This blog is getting heated. Let's all play nice and remember we're on the same team here.
About today's quiz. Out of the butt load of info and topics on oral bio, the professors decide that the best way to test our overall knowledge is by giving only 10 questions!! That is unfair and puts the test taker at a disadvantage statistically speaking. It's like a lottery so to speak. Can we change this? Also, can we also request for one more drop quiz in organs? thanks
Can we please have a second quiz dropped in Organ Systems?
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