i already paid for one clicker... why am i paying for another?
these clickers should give free of charge if we trade in our old clickers. (instead of giving the money to student council which will mostly likely go to some happy hour that only 1/8 of the class goes to)
I'll agree with the top post. Furthermore, there really is NOT a problem with the old clickers. There are several faculty members who use them just fine at this school (and again at several other schools). How could they resolve this issue without making us pay unnecessarily? 1. retrain the VERY FEW faculty that actually uses clickers 2. have an informatics person come up and set up the system before each lecture (as they already do for many "guest speakers" and their laptops).....I'm sure we'll have fewer ppl who use clickers than we do guest speakers 3. Assign a student to do it. In fact, I'm perfectly willing to come to all the classes and get trained to set up the old clicker system for the faculty and integrate their ppt files into the existing CPS system. Sign me up. Done deal. If its not ACTUALLY broken, stop wasting money trying to fix it.
This reeks of the school having a contract with the clicker company as their first priority instead of its students interests.
Also, who uses clickers for CREDIT? Clearly class attendance is optional these days. And I think its pretty much been established that the faculty will no longer attempt to attach any kind of point value to clicker questions. So the whole class is issued new clickers in order to acheive what? Higher class attendance for clicker questions that arent worth anything? Is this another mind game? Like not telling us if the clickers or quizzes etc are worth anything until AFTER we've already taken them?
Respectful indeed.
I will say that its absolutely amazing how easily Dr. Wolfe and Dr. Spielman are able to "get things done" compared to any other person you speak to in this building......the problem is in the things that they are actually choosing to do and what value they feel will be added by doing them.
This new clicker is absolutely unnecessary, further more it would have been nice to be part of the dialogue to come to a decision to use these. I already paid for a lame clicker, paying again and then being told to "donate" it for a good cause doesn't sit well with me.
The cost of this extra clicker is the cost of a week worth of groceries for me.....
I think everyone is coming up with too many conspiracy theories here and I just can't accept that being the case. As much as I know the school wants to make money, I'm not buying that they are doing this intentionally just to mess with us. Do we know why they're switch to a new clicker?
Also, Andrew: How do you spend $30 a week on food? That's what I spend per day!
Very unnecessary. The CPS clicker system works perfectly fine and I can vouch for it working fine in the past at other schools. Pretty sure the majority of our class agrees with me. The problem is with the faculty being unable to set up and run the clicker program on their computers. I know Dr. Spielman attempted to make a case for these "new and improved" clickers during his CCP on enamel erosion. However the fact is that the CPS clickers we paid 35 bucks for are very simple to use. His case for the new ones were based on the fact that "all you had to do was turn it on and Voila you're online and clicking away"... however rare that is for us.
In conclusion, learn to Clicker NYUCD. I, personally, am disappointed at the choices and resolutions NYUCD has made thusfar for our guinea pig class of 2012. Good thing we're a resilient bunch :)
I have absolutely no problem with turning in my fairly new clicker that I bought less than a year ago for an even newer clicker...however, I absolutely refuse to spend the money on a brand new clicker when the one I currently own works perfectly fine! If they're so desperate for us to have them, why not make it an exchange thing, one clicker for the other? Why should we have to pay hard earned money for their whims?!
Considering I'm in the hole $93k a year, 30 bucks isn't really that significant in the grand scheme of things. However, knowing how much we do pay to attend this great institution, I would think they could find a way to not make us pony up the cash for these incredibly useless pieces of technology. In the end, this whole situation just gives me more motivation to "borrow" more 33 1/2 burs and other supplies from the clinic floors.
I don't think the clicker change is a big deal. It's only $30 and you won't even notice it in the grand scheme of things. The 0.000476% increase in tuition + fees is a really silly thing to argue about.
Also, to the previous poster, just because you don't agree with something the school did does not make stealing a good solution. Grow up. You're a disgrace.
I agree that if new clickers are to be used, they should be provided as a replacement to the ones we presently have free of charge. Plus, negative billing is actually illegal in a lot of places and the fact that it is for use in 2 upcoming experimental classes is really disappointing. Again, we are paying (literally and figuratively) for someone else's research.
I'm also sure that there is some value to the clickers that we are using other than recycling. 6 months ago, they were worth 30 dollars... even in recycling, most of it goes in the trash.
By the way, our school fees actually pay for all clinic supplies. I have been told by many staff that we can access/use them within reason. Plus, the 11th floor supply area actually has extra. You just have to ask nicely.
There is absolutely no reason we should have to get new CPS clickers. There is nothing wrong with them. The problem is USER ERROR, and when I say user I am referring to the instructor, not the students. Dr. Hittleman was able to successfully use the CPS system without difficulty throughout the current and last semester, so why can't anyone else?
I have used CPS in many courses in both my undergrad and post-bach schooling and have never had a problem. My degree is also in computer systems, in which we learned that 99% of time the problem is not a result of the system , but it is because the user (ie. our instructors). I believe this holds true for the NYUCD CPS "problem".
As for the $30, yes, it is not alot of money when you compare it to the total amount of money we will pay in a year, but neither is the $1.75/tooth we purchase, scrubs, etc. These begin to add up after awhile to a large amount.
However, money is not the issue here. It is the principle of being told to purchase a new CPS clicker to replace a perfectly find one everyone already purchased. Didn't someone think to ask us what we thought? There are tech-savvy students willing to be in charge of the CPS.
Just another example of faculty only having their personal interests in mind. The new clickers will make the 1-2 instructors lives easier, but at the expense of the students...computer-based exams anyone?
quoting: "I don't think the clicker change is a big deal. It's only $30 and you won't even notice it in the grand scheme of things. The 0.000476% increase in tuition + fees is a really silly thing to argue about.
Also, to the previous poster, just because you don't agree with something the school did does not make stealing a good solution. Grow up. You're a disgrace."
would you like to pay for mine too? I don't think you'd notice a $60 increase to your tuition bill either..
Nope, I wouldn't notice it and you're honestly kidding yourself if you think that $30 is a something to gripe about when you're already paying 63,000 a year for school and god knows how much else for room and board. But if it's really that big a deal to you that you'd want a fellow student to cover your costs, why don't you let me know who you are and we can work it out from there.
it may not seem like a big deal since its only $30, but what if it was $300 for example? i don't like how the school forced us to buy the clicker twice w/o our input nor offering us a discount and we have only used the old clicker for one and a half semester. seriously, what was so wrong with the old clickers. and to add insult to injury, they expect us to return the old clickers? $30 times 235 students equals $7,000. multiply that by two since we bought them twice, and the school grossed $14,000 off of us on these stupid clickers in less than a year. This crap adds up. Unethical in my book.
this is just wrong on so many levels. i agree, something needs to be done. make the fees go away! this better not be the stepping stone for the school to find ways to nit pick our tuition money away.
I don't care about the new clickers. Perhaps there should be some comments on why the group B section has all their practicals at 10:00 am. This is unfair. Why? Because after catching three hours of sleep before one of these quizzes, I'd love to go home and sleep so I can come into the practical with a fresh brain.
Break On mondays: That time is reserved for conferences. Section A1 has conference from 10 to 1 this upcoming monday. With the class broken into different sections, breaks like this are inevitable.
Break on wednesday: The 10 to 11 slot was reserved for Facial Growth, but the lectures for that class have ended. Again, with block scheduling, something that is going to happen on occasion since classes have staggered start and end dates. In the future, if you would like to try to have a class moved, please let us know in advance, as the night before is too late to try to get anything changed.
$30 out of $60K + is not the point, just because I'm spending a lot of money(which is not mine to begin with and I will have to pay back) doens't make the value of that money any less to me. I'm sorry that you never got an appreciate for the cost of things. But I, certainly don't take it lightly that other think just because I am already spending a lot, that getting shafted for $30 is acceptable. It's a matter of principle. Andrew.
i agree with andrew about the $30 still being worth something despite its percentage out of our total tuition. we should either 1. not be charged $30 or 2. be given a refund for our old clicker when we turn it into informatics to be 'recycled' instead of the money being given to sc
i agree that the clickers should burn in hell.
i think that the student council should stop relying on students to "let us know in advance" of any problems. you should be capable of recognizing issues and addressing them yourself.
uhm, no. are u completely unaware that they made us buy the clicker twice? read the other comments on this blog to get an idea of whats going on. in fact, why do you think we have taken issue with the new clicker situation any way? get a clue.
I'm aware we bought two clickers, each of which cost $30. The first one was not worth $30, I'll give you that. This one, if it gets used, may be worth $30. We did not pay $60 for either clicker. Saying this clicker isn't worth $60 is obvious. It's worth $30, maybe. Just because you don't like something doesn't give you the right to start using gorilla math. Get a clue.
omg. ur missing the point. i know that one clicker costs $30. and another thing, we are not talking about how much we think its worth, but the actual price it cost us. now rem that we were forced to buy two. so in essence, we ended up paying the clicker fee twice. don't take its so literally, thats where u seem to be getting confused. now we have two clickers, one that is completely useless and thus a complete waste of $30.
Here's a question for the student gov. I've used the OLD (CPS/PRS) clicker system at many schools before. Generally, the clickers do not cost 25 bucks. They cost less and THEN you have to pay for how many courses you "register" them for (that online thing we did). You have the option of paying for each class you sign up for OR you can pay a one time larger fee and the clicker is good for as many classes as you want under a full subscription.... So to me, it sounds like the school bought a subscription. I would think a penny pinching school like NYUCD tried to get out of their subscription....and presumably they get some money back from that since I doubt the contract ended mid March. I'm sure they won't give us a cent but I'd still like someone to ask them whats going on in that end. Just to highlight the injustice and perhaps hint that they shouldnt go try to do that again next semester.
Or did they just cut and run on the contract? Maybe they're treating their CPS representative as badly as they're treating us in this situation.
I'm going to redirect to what I think is the REAL issue at hand: Admin (namely Spielman) out of the blue deciding to add charges (any charges for any reason) without any prior discussion or warning. Thats just plain shitty policy. In the academic world, the business world, the moral world....you name it, people generally dont just "get away with that" silently.
So I've said this before but I think its worth reiterating. We as NYU students lack a formal contract with the admin/faculty on what our rights are. We have documents (that are apparently somewhat vague and even then, not well enforced) on cheating policy, tuition payment policy, etc.....(basic all of our responsibilities to the institution) but we have no student rights document (the institutions minimum responsibilities to us). Not what they supposedly STRIVE to achieve. Not some white coat ceremony where we all hold hands and sing Kumbaya. I mean a clear cut policy on the MINIMUM we can expect from the institution. How about you guys work on that. Again, this seems to be an NYU thing because we've had "student rights and responsibilities" documents from elementary school through undergrad in Virginia...maybe its just the DC influence.
Its hard for me to know when I'm justified in lodging a complain because I essentially have no rights at this school....how can I say I'm being treated poorly when we've never really established what level of treatment I can expect from the university? At this point in time, I'm to believe that my only rights are safety from harrasment and discrimination (which is a matter of state law...not a contract with the school). Oh and AFTER its all over, I get to fill out a survey that may or may not affect what happens to next years D1s...
Since NYU is clearly making an effort at spelling out our responsibilities more firmly (updating competencies, changing curriculum, etc).....why aren't they doing a better job at spelling out my rights?
Something along the lines of:
1. No INDIVIDUAL question on any exam, quiz, test, etc may be worth more than X% (lets say 3%) of the total value of the course....maybe this will help us get more questions on a midterm or final and show a BETTER REPRESENTATION OF OUR KNOWLEDGE. 2. All grades must be posted within X (lets say 5 business days or 7 days total) of the date of administration. If for some reason this doesnt happen, go higher up the food chain. Theres no excuse for why some faculty are CONSISTENTLY able to get grades posted in 2 or so days while others take over a week....and then blame the "Scantron machine/person". Everybody uses the same machine/person.....and if it takes more than a week to get a "weekly quiz" grade, we should be able to ask Spielman or someone to step in and light a fire under someones butt to get it done. 3. Faculty who choose to refuse to allow iTunes recording should provide at least 24 hour notice to a curriculum representative or course director. 4. Questions that blatantly have NO CORRECT ANSWER due to being poorly written and not proofread should not be dropped. Everybody should get full credit. I'm not talking about "challenges" or "statistical analysis" since those are still a subjective issue. I'm talking about the question being about a tooth in the UR quadrant and then all the answers being in the left quadrant or things like that. 5. We need a chain of command for who we can file FORMAL complaints to for lab issues. i.e) not enough row instructors, all the row instructors leaving 30 minutes early. The faculty themselves shares a lot of our frustrations....so clearly we need to be able to "jump rank" and go higher up (I'm sure several of the current row instructors would support that as well).Would you believe I saw a girl giving applicants a tour and she told them we get 2 instructors per row? I just about bust a gut. Its a miracle I kept my mouth shut....yeah I know, it really IS a miracle I kept my mouth shut.
Overall I'd say I'm looking for some accountability. But I can't very well hold anybody accountable for their actions....again bc there are no standards for me to hold anybody accountable against. Just my own beliefs at this point. Lets get student gov to sit down and hopefully create an overarching document.....if not, then how about you try to sit down with individual course directors and at least get some kind of contract put together for individual courses? Not an "informal discussion"....bc we're New Yorkers now and that just doesnt cut it. A formal document that we can expect to pass on to next years class....and set a precedent to have such a contract established with our D2 classes too.
And I've had one final question nagging me for a while now. Did student government know about new clickers in advance at all? Or did Spielman honestly just spring it on us? I imagine ordering all these clickers and getting all the hardware switched out took some serious forethought. So either 1. it was discussed with a student somewhere and the ball got dropped 2. It was never discussed. In which case we need to speak to Spielman why he felt it was appropriate or necessary to back us into a corner like that.
Lets see a little proactive action here please =) And it would be great for us to be kept better informed on what action that is....like a log of minutes from our secretary......
Sahel..Wow, I share your sentiments completely and believe me, I know many colleagues who do as well. You have my vote for class president next year. We need more people who realize when things aren't right, who are passionate, and willing to fight. Bravo..
im getting very angry about profs going over the assigned lecture times and i think student council should do something about it.
why? we have practicals, labs, and other personal things to get to once class is over. the professors are being disrespectful by going over time because they know that our grades hang in the balance and we feel obligated to stay (for those of us who actually attend class). i dont care if it's being recorded: i can't afford to listen to the end of every lecture because the prof can't budget his/her time.
the schedule says class is 8-9:50am. that means 9:50, i am on my way. not at 9:55 or 10am, i leave class and then am late to lab where there might be a practical or a quiz. even if the class is at the end of the day, i plan things according to my schedule, the bus/subway i catch home, personal appointments. i try to account for delays but its getting ridiculous.
furthermore, i hate it when profs say 'try to take a 5 min break because i'm behind'. it's not my fault that you chose to go on a tangent about something non-related. if this was a job, it could be against the law to tell an employee to not take a full break.
please work on this. talk to the profs before class about it, send an email to all the lecturers, turn off the mic once the lecture time is over, whatever you need to do to make sure this doesn't happen anymore.
theres no class from 9-10 on wed the 13th. can dr sehl stay and do her aging of organ systems lecture 1 (and then lecture 2 thurs when scheduled) so we all dont have to come in again monday and those who dont go to class don't have to wait until momday afternoon to listen to the lecture? or how about asking dr roy to come in and then move everyone else up?
I couldn't get the schedule change to work out this time. Since we didn't have Nagle reserved already, I had to go through facilities management to reserve the room. They just got back to me saying we can use it (4:30pm Tuesday), but the professors feel it's too late and want to keep the schedule as is to avoid last minute confusion.
40 comments:
i already paid for one clicker... why am i paying for another?
these clickers should give free of charge if we trade in our old clickers. (instead of giving the money to student council which will mostly likely go to some happy hour that only 1/8 of the class goes to)
fix this please
I'll agree with the top post. Furthermore, there really is NOT a problem with the old clickers. There are several faculty members who use them just fine at this school (and again at several other schools). How could they resolve this issue without making us pay unnecessarily?
1. retrain the VERY FEW faculty that actually uses clickers
2. have an informatics person come up and set up the system before each lecture (as they already do for many "guest speakers" and their laptops).....I'm sure we'll have fewer ppl who use clickers than we do guest speakers
3. Assign a student to do it. In fact, I'm perfectly willing to come to all the classes and get trained to set up the old clicker system for the faculty and integrate their ppt files into the existing CPS system. Sign me up. Done deal. If its not ACTUALLY broken, stop wasting money trying to fix it.
This reeks of the school having a contract with the clicker company as their first priority instead of its students interests.
Also, who uses clickers for CREDIT? Clearly class attendance is optional these days. And I think its pretty much been established that the faculty will no longer attempt to attach any kind of point value to clicker questions. So the whole class is issued new clickers in order to acheive what? Higher class attendance for clicker questions that arent worth anything? Is this another mind game? Like not telling us if the clickers or quizzes etc are worth anything until AFTER we've already taken them?
Respectful indeed.
I will say that its absolutely amazing how easily Dr. Wolfe and Dr. Spielman are able to "get things done" compared to any other person you speak to in this building......the problem is in the things that they are actually choosing to do and what value they feel will be added by doing them.
Cosigned with above 2 posts.
This new clicker is absolutely unnecessary, further more it would have been nice to be part of the dialogue to come to a decision to use these. I already paid for a lame clicker, paying again and then being told to "donate" it for a good cause doesn't sit well with me.
The cost of this extra clicker is the cost of a week worth of groceries for me.....
Andrew
I think everyone is coming up with too many conspiracy theories here and I just can't accept that being the case. As much as I know the school wants to make money, I'm not buying that they are doing this intentionally just to mess with us. Do we know why they're switch to a new clicker?
Also, Andrew: How do you spend $30 a week on food? That's what I spend per day!
I live and shop in NJ, and I live alone, I don't buy processed foods, snacks, just produce and make things myself. ;)
andrew.
Very unnecessary. The CPS clicker system works perfectly fine and I can vouch for it working fine in the past at other schools. Pretty sure the majority of our class agrees with me. The problem is with the faculty being unable to set up and run the clicker program on their computers. I know Dr. Spielman attempted to make a case for these "new and improved" clickers during his CCP on enamel erosion. However the fact is that the CPS clickers we paid 35 bucks for are very simple to use. His case for the new ones were based on the fact that "all you had to do was turn it on and Voila you're online and clicking away"... however rare that is for us.
In conclusion, learn to Clicker NYUCD. I, personally, am disappointed at the choices and resolutions NYUCD has made thusfar for our guinea pig class of 2012. Good thing we're a resilient bunch :)
CK
I have absolutely no problem with turning in my fairly new clicker that I bought less than a year ago for an even newer clicker...however, I absolutely refuse to spend the money on a brand new clicker when the one I currently own works perfectly fine! If they're so desperate for us to have them, why not make it an exchange thing, one clicker for the other? Why should we have to pay hard earned money for their whims?!
Considering I'm in the hole $93k a year, 30 bucks isn't really that significant in the grand scheme of things. However, knowing how much we do pay to attend this great institution, I would think they could find a way to not make us pony up the cash for these incredibly useless pieces of technology. In the end, this whole situation just gives me more motivation to "borrow" more 33 1/2 burs and other supplies from the clinic floors.
I don't think the clicker change is a big deal. It's only $30 and you won't even notice it in the grand scheme of things. The 0.000476% increase in tuition + fees is a really silly thing to argue about.
Also, to the previous poster, just because you don't agree with something the school did does not make stealing a good solution. Grow up. You're a disgrace.
I agree that if new clickers are to be used, they should be provided as a replacement to the ones we presently have free of charge. Plus, negative billing is actually illegal in a lot of places and the fact that it is for use in 2 upcoming experimental classes is really disappointing. Again, we are paying (literally and figuratively) for someone else's research.
I'm also sure that there is some value to the clickers that we are using other than recycling. 6 months ago, they were worth 30 dollars... even in recycling, most of it goes in the trash.
By the way, our school fees actually pay for all clinic supplies. I have been told by many staff that we can access/use them within reason. Plus, the 11th floor supply area actually has extra. You just have to ask nicely.
D
There is absolutely no reason we should have to get new CPS clickers. There is nothing wrong with them. The problem is USER ERROR, and when I say user I am referring to the instructor, not the students. Dr. Hittleman was able to successfully use the CPS system without difficulty throughout the current and last semester, so why can't anyone else?
I have used CPS in many courses in both my undergrad and post-bach schooling and have never had a problem. My degree is also in computer systems, in which we learned that 99% of time the problem is not a result of the system , but it is because the user (ie. our instructors). I believe this holds true for the NYUCD CPS "problem".
As for the $30, yes, it is not alot of money when you compare it to the total amount of money we will pay in a year, but neither is the $1.75/tooth we purchase, scrubs, etc. These begin to add up after awhile to a large amount.
However, money is not the issue here. It is the principle of being told to purchase a new CPS clicker to replace a perfectly find one everyone already purchased. Didn't someone think to ask us what we thought? There are tech-savvy students willing to be in charge of the CPS.
Just another example of faculty only having their personal interests in mind. The new clickers will make the 1-2 instructors lives easier, but at the expense of the students...computer-based exams anyone?
quoting:
"I don't think the clicker change is a big deal. It's only $30 and you won't even notice it in the grand scheme of things. The 0.000476% increase in tuition + fees is a really silly thing to argue about.
Also, to the previous poster, just because you don't agree with something the school did does not make stealing a good solution. Grow up. You're a disgrace."
would you like to pay for mine too? I don't think you'd notice a $60 increase to your tuition bill either..
Nope, I wouldn't notice it and you're honestly kidding yourself if you think that $30 is a something to gripe about when you're already paying 63,000 a year for school and god knows how much else for room and board. But if it's really that big a deal to you that you'd want a fellow student to cover your costs, why don't you let me know who you are and we can work it out from there.
it may not seem like a big deal since its only $30, but what if it was $300 for example? i don't like how the school forced us to buy the clicker twice w/o our input nor offering us a discount and we have only used the old clicker for one and a half semester. seriously, what was so wrong with the old clickers. and to add insult to injury, they expect us to return the old clickers? $30 times 235 students equals $7,000. multiply that by two since we bought them twice, and the school grossed $14,000 off of us on these stupid clickers in less than a year. This crap adds up. Unethical in my book.
if the $30 is so insignificant, make it go away. the points didnt even count for anything, this was just experimenting with a new system.
all i ask is that you make this charge and all other extra charges go away!
this is just wrong on so many levels. i agree, something needs to be done. make the fees go away! this better not be the stepping stone for the school to find ways to nit pick our tuition money away.
I don't care about the new clickers. Perhaps there should be some comments on why the group B section has all their practicals at 10:00 am. This is unfair. Why? Because after catching three hours of sleep before one of these quizzes, I'd love to go home and sleep so I can come into the practical with a fresh brain.
what about the schedule? why do we have a random 1 hr break tomorrow from 10-11 and monday from 10-2 and every other monday and some wednesdays?
why isn't student council on any of these things? do we really have to complain for weeks in order to get you to accomplish something?
Break On mondays: That time is reserved for conferences. Section A1 has conference from 10 to 1 this upcoming monday. With the class broken into different sections, breaks like this are inevitable.
Break on wednesday: The 10 to 11 slot was reserved for Facial Growth, but the lectures for that class have ended. Again, with block scheduling, something that is going to happen on occasion since classes have staggered start and end dates. In the future, if you would like to try to have a class moved, please let us know in advance, as the night before is too late to try to get anything changed.
$30 out of $60K + is not the point, just because I'm spending a lot of money(which is not mine to begin with and I will have to pay back) doens't make the value of that money any less to me. I'm sorry that you never got an appreciate for the cost of things. But I, certainly don't take it lightly that other think just because I am already spending a lot, that getting shafted for $30 is acceptable. It's a matter of principle.
Andrew.
CLICKERS BURN IN HELL!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!
i agree with andrew about the $30 still being worth something despite its percentage out of our total tuition. we should either 1. not be charged $30 or 2. be given a refund for our old clicker when we turn it into informatics to be 'recycled' instead of the money being given to sc
i agree that the clickers should burn in hell.
i think that the student council should stop relying on students to "let us know in advance" of any problems. you should be capable of recognizing issues and addressing them yourself.
they're small. they work. i like 'em!
i agree, but they are not worth $60
where's my quiz grades!!!!!!!!!!!!!????????????? ahhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhh
Where are you pulling this $60 figure from?
simple, they made us buy the clicker twice! 2 x $30 = $60
I'm assuming you're trying to be funny because your logic is inherently flawed. The new clicker only cost $30.
uhm, no. are u completely unaware that they made us buy the clicker twice? read the other comments on this blog to get an idea of whats going on. in fact, why do you think we have taken issue with the new clicker situation any way? get a clue.
I'm aware we bought two clickers, each of which cost $30. The first one was not worth $30, I'll give you that. This one, if it gets used, may be worth $30. We did not pay $60 for either clicker. Saying this clicker isn't worth $60 is obvious. It's worth $30, maybe. Just because you don't like something doesn't give you the right to start using gorilla math. Get a clue.
omg. ur missing the point. i know that one clicker costs $30. and another thing, we are not talking about how much we think its worth, but the actual price it cost us. now rem that we were forced to buy two. so in essence, we ended up paying the clicker fee twice. don't take its so literally, thats where u seem to be getting confused. now we have two clickers, one that is completely useless and thus a complete waste of $30.
Here's a question for the student gov. I've used the OLD (CPS/PRS) clicker system at many schools before. Generally, the clickers do not cost 25 bucks. They cost less and THEN you have to pay for how many courses you "register" them for (that online thing we did). You have the option of paying for each class you sign up for OR you can pay a one time larger fee and the clicker is good for as many classes as you want under a full subscription....
So to me, it sounds like the school bought a subscription. I would think a penny pinching school like NYUCD tried to get out of their subscription....and presumably they get some money back from that since I doubt the contract ended mid March. I'm sure they won't give us a cent but I'd still like someone to ask them whats going on in that end. Just to highlight the injustice and perhaps hint that they shouldnt go try to do that again next semester.
Or did they just cut and run on the contract? Maybe they're treating their CPS representative as badly as they're treating us in this situation.
I'm going to redirect to what I think is the REAL issue at hand: Admin (namely Spielman) out of the blue deciding to add charges (any charges for any reason) without any prior discussion or warning. Thats just plain shitty policy. In the academic world, the business world, the moral world....you name it, people generally dont just "get away with that" silently.
So I've said this before but I think its worth reiterating. We as NYU students lack a formal contract with the admin/faculty on what our rights are. We have documents (that are apparently somewhat vague and even then, not well enforced) on cheating policy, tuition payment policy, etc.....(basic all of our responsibilities to the institution) but we have no student rights document (the institutions minimum responsibilities to us). Not what they supposedly STRIVE to achieve. Not some white coat ceremony where we all hold hands and sing Kumbaya. I mean a clear cut policy on the MINIMUM we can expect from the institution. How about you guys work on that. Again, this seems to be an NYU thing because we've had "student rights and responsibilities" documents from elementary school through undergrad in Virginia...maybe its just the DC influence.
Its hard for me to know when I'm justified in lodging a complain because I essentially have no rights at this school....how can I say I'm being treated poorly when we've never really established what level of treatment I can expect from the university? At this point in time, I'm to believe that my only rights are safety from harrasment and discrimination (which is a matter of state law...not a contract with the school). Oh and AFTER its all over, I get to fill out a survey that may or may not affect what happens to next years D1s...
Since NYU is clearly making an effort at spelling out our responsibilities more firmly (updating competencies, changing curriculum, etc).....why aren't they doing a better job at spelling out my rights?
Something along the lines of:
1. No INDIVIDUAL question on any exam, quiz, test, etc may be worth more than X% (lets say 3%) of the total value of the course....maybe this will help us get more questions on a midterm or final and show a BETTER REPRESENTATION OF OUR KNOWLEDGE.
2. All grades must be posted within X (lets say 5 business days or 7 days total) of the date of administration. If for some reason this doesnt happen, go higher up the food chain. Theres no excuse for why some faculty are CONSISTENTLY able to get grades posted in 2 or so days while others take over a week....and then blame the "Scantron machine/person". Everybody uses the same machine/person.....and if it takes more than a week to get a "weekly quiz" grade, we should be able to ask Spielman or someone to step in and light a fire under someones butt to get it done.
3. Faculty who choose to refuse to allow iTunes recording should provide at least 24 hour notice to a curriculum representative or course director.
4. Questions that blatantly have NO CORRECT ANSWER due to being poorly written and not proofread should not be dropped. Everybody should get full credit. I'm not talking about "challenges" or "statistical analysis" since those are still a subjective issue. I'm talking about the question being about a tooth in the UR quadrant and then all the answers being in the left quadrant or things like that.
5. We need a chain of command for who we can file FORMAL complaints to for lab issues. i.e) not enough row instructors, all the row instructors leaving 30 minutes early. The faculty themselves shares a lot of our frustrations....so clearly we need to be able to "jump rank" and go higher up (I'm sure several of the current row instructors would support that as well).Would you believe I saw a girl giving applicants a tour and she told them we get 2 instructors per row? I just about bust a gut. Its a miracle I kept my mouth shut....yeah I know, it really IS a miracle I kept my mouth shut.
Overall I'd say I'm looking for some accountability. But I can't very well hold anybody accountable for their actions....again bc there are no standards for me to hold anybody accountable against. Just my own beliefs at this point. Lets get student gov to sit down and hopefully create an overarching document.....if not, then how about you try to sit down with individual course directors and at least get some kind of contract put together for individual courses? Not an "informal discussion"....bc we're New Yorkers now and that just doesnt cut it. A formal document that we can expect to pass on to next years class....and set a precedent to have such a contract established with our D2 classes too.
And I've had one final question nagging me for a while now. Did student government know about new clickers in advance at all? Or did Spielman honestly just spring it on us? I imagine ordering all these clickers and getting all the hardware switched out took some serious forethought. So either
1. it was discussed with a student somewhere and the ball got dropped
2. It was never discussed. In which case we need to speak to Spielman why he felt it was appropriate or necessary to back us into a corner like that.
Lets see a little proactive action here please =) And it would be great for us to be kept better informed on what action that is....like a log of minutes from our secretary......
Shutting up now,
Sahel
Sahel..Wow, I share your sentiments completely and believe me, I know many colleagues who do as well. You have my vote for class president next year. We need more people who realize when things aren't right, who are passionate, and willing to fight. Bravo..
can class council argue for an extra drop in organ systems or one drop in facial or an extra facial quiz + one drop?
didn't we get 5 drops in anatomy!?
and i think theyre taking so long with the quizzes because the averages have gone down.
its gonna feel sooo good to sleep in a little on friday. thank you mital !
this next quiz has too many lectures on it... can we just all fail it on purpose so they have to disregard it.... thank you
im getting very angry about profs going over the assigned lecture times and i think student council should do something about it.
why? we have practicals, labs, and other personal things to get to once class is over. the professors are being disrespectful by going over time because they know that our grades hang in the balance and we feel obligated to stay (for those of us who actually attend class). i dont care if it's being recorded: i can't afford to listen to the end of every lecture because the prof can't budget his/her time.
the schedule says class is 8-9:50am. that means 9:50, i am on my way. not at 9:55 or 10am, i leave class and then am late to lab where there might be a practical or a quiz. even if the class is at the end of the day, i plan things according to my schedule, the bus/subway i catch home, personal appointments. i try to account for delays but its getting ridiculous.
furthermore, i hate it when profs say 'try to take a 5 min break because i'm behind'. it's not my fault that you chose to go on a tangent about something non-related. if this was a job, it could be against the law to tell an employee to not take a full break.
please work on this. talk to the profs before class about it, send an email to all the lecturers, turn off the mic once the lecture time is over, whatever you need to do to make sure this doesn't happen anymore.
Can we please have another quiz dropped in Organ Systems?
theres no class from 9-10 on wed the 13th. can dr sehl stay and do her aging of organ systems lecture 1 (and then lecture 2 thurs when scheduled) so we all dont have to come in again monday and those who dont go to class don't have to wait until momday afternoon to listen to the lecture? or how about asking dr roy to come in and then move everyone else up?
I couldn't get the schedule change to work out this time. Since we didn't have Nagle reserved already, I had to go through facilities management to reserve the room. They just got back to me saying we can use it (4:30pm Tuesday), but the professors feel it's too late and want to keep the schedule as is to avoid last minute confusion.
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